Author Topic: Dawes v Boulder Pads  (Read 10743 times)

trish fox

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Dawes v Boulder Pads
« on: May 31, 2012, 08:19:47 AM »
Johnny Dawes made fun of the idea of the use of Boulder Pads last night...

 ???

Discuss.

Stephen McMullan

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Re: Dawes v Boulder Pads
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2012, 09:06:30 AM »
What was the context? You have to remember where and possibly more importantly when he comes from. A lot of very bold short routes of yesteryear are now highball boulder problems and the more pads you bring the safer they are. He may feel that is a degradation of their status and his perspective may be nothing to do with "modern" bouldering.

Anyways couldn't make the show last night? How was it?

trish fox

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Re: Dawes v Boulder Pads
« Reply #2 on: May 31, 2012, 09:36:02 AM »
That was pretty much his context, and I'm sure that's how he feels,

When he put those routes up, I'm sure bouldering wasn't as popular as it is today... Just didn't sit right to think that there are those who'd argue that one shouldn't put a pad under a climb...

For example: 'You fell off the top and broke your ankle, arm and pelvis but at least you have Johnny's respect - imagine if you'd had a pad... what would he think?!'


Stephen McMullan

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Re: Dawes v Boulder Pads
« Reply #3 on: May 31, 2012, 09:44:18 AM »
There was a time when top roping, practice, pre-inspection and even the use of chalk or getting beta never mind the use of pads was looked on as pure cowardice and downright cheating. Ah the good old days...  ;D

richard

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Re: Dawes v Boulder Pads
« Reply #4 on: May 31, 2012, 10:48:03 AM »
Climbing gets more and more softcore...

The nice thing though is that it doesn't really matter what way you do things as long as you're honest and don't chip/bolt/polish things too much by toproping. I never fancied those short grit routes. Seems like a waste of time paying out a rope and placing a sideways RP2 that'll probably rip out anyway. Makes a lot more sense to me to do them as highball problems. And that's from somebody who doesn't even love bouldering that much.

trish fox

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Re: Dawes v Boulder Pads
« Reply #5 on: May 31, 2012, 04:12:18 PM »
But isn't the point to climb - not to just 'avoid falling' cause if you do you're gonna die...

I mean whatever makes climbing safer is a good thing surely - cause the activity is climbing...

Not cheating death...

Hardcore cause there's no pad, or terrible boots, or no chalk or gear? Come on!!!

The number one thing in the world of sport is to stay healthy so the activity can be done - anything that can aid that is surely a good thing...

The whole idea of 'in my day' is kind of stupid...

Progress is always going to be made not only in standards of climbing but also in safer and better equipment.


Stephen McMullan

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Re: Dawes v Boulder Pads
« Reply #6 on: May 31, 2012, 05:20:07 PM »
I completely disagree with that. Its every bit as limited an outlook as the inverse. The headgames in doing something adventurous and risky can be every bit as rewarding as sequencing a couple of moves. Personally I don't bother justifying one over the other as its all very personal as to what you want at the end of the day. Make your choice and stick with it. You'll know when you've figured it out when you cease to be surprised or threated by what other folks do.  ;)

Dave Flanagan

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Re: Dawes v Boulder Pads
« Reply #7 on: May 31, 2012, 08:51:51 PM »
The number one thing in the world of sport is to stay healthy so the activity can be done - anything that can aid that is surely a good thing...

Climbing isn't a sport.

Paul Brennan

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Re: Dawes v Boulder Pads
« Reply #8 on: May 31, 2012, 09:11:23 PM »
Have to agree with Steve here Trish. The point of climbing isn't always the moves you do. Low to mid height bouldering, and sport climbing are there if you just want to test your physical limits. Other kinds of climbing can challenge different limits. Mental strength, misery/pain tolerance, even boredom threshold. For some people, myself included, it would all be a bit pointless if there was no consequence. Thats not to say I want to die, or search out particularly risky things to do. The idea is to put yourself in a position with a certain amount of consequence and learn something from how you deal with it. If you want something largely inconsequential, go sport climbing.

The, for want of a better word, "adventure" element in climbing is what makes it a bit different to other sports. Personally I don't think climbing should be considered a sport in the true meaning of the word.

The whole pad thing boils down to the person really. If you want to get that sketchy E7 tick, no pads. If you want a highball 7b, use as many pads as you can get your hands on. If you just want to do the moves, use a toprope. Personal choice.

Edit: Beat me to the punch Dave. I agree.

trish fox

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Re: Dawes v Boulder Pads
« Reply #9 on: June 01, 2012, 09:22:30 AM »
UGh... Hellooooo!!! - Bouldering forum!!!!!... this should be moved to climbing.ie...

Stephen McMullan

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Re: Dawes v Boulder Pads
« Reply #10 on: June 01, 2012, 09:58:38 AM »
All of the above can be translated into bouldering. You take a highball problem with a bad landing. One person says the risk is unjustifiable and advocates building and using a platform, another says that the risk is as much a part of the boulder problem as anything else and chooses to do without the aid of a platform. Something similar(-ish) did occur a couple of seasons back up north.

The point is still valid. One can choose to limit oneself to a specific approach but you'd be a wiser and better climber to at least acknowledge the existence and the validity of the others.

trish fox

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Re: Dawes v Boulder Pads
« Reply #11 on: June 01, 2012, 10:11:15 AM »
My whole point is that - and yes, this is my approach to bouldering - placing a pad under a climb doesn't make the climb any less climbed than someone who has no need for a pad.

I don't need a pad for some of the easy lines I've climbed a million times, but it's really never occurred to me to think when I see someone on one of those lines using a pad that they're 'soft core' or ruining their experience!!

My jaw dropped when I heard that a couple of the boulderers I know had done 'Rhythm and Stealth' with no spotters and only one pad... but when I sent the line with Ireland's tallest spotter under me and 3 pads, it didn't occur to me at the top that I should come back on my own for the real send.

My point is that to in any way belittle the achievement of a climber because they used a pad is kind of stupid. The rock is climbed - full stop. 

Even the example of that guy who did that hard line in Ceuse with trad gear... So now is the achievement of every sport climber that ever did it wiped?

Come on...

Stephen McMullan

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Re: Dawes v Boulder Pads
« Reply #12 on: June 01, 2012, 10:37:48 AM »
I hope we're back to Dawes because I certainly don't belittle climbers achievements.

To be fair I think your point has shifted slightly from "not using pads is stupid" (which I don't agree with) to "saying you can't use pads is stupid" (which I completely agree with).

Never mind Dawes. Great climber, super impressive record but he is one of the biggest wind up merchants in the game and has his own very personal perspective. He's entitled to it. I'm entitled to mine.

I don't pay much heed to folk who tell me that I can't / shouldn't do something (I'm not a huge fan of bolting or chiselling mind).

I didn't get into climbing or diving for that matter for the "rules".  :)


[Edit: to be fair to Dawes - he got you thinking which is probably the only point he was trying to make]
« Last Edit: June 01, 2012, 10:40:53 AM by Stephen McMullan »

Dave Flanagan

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Re: Dawes v Boulder Pads
« Reply #13 on: June 01, 2012, 11:44:32 AM »
The problem lies in the blurred line so highballing/soloing.

Is an ascent of a route without pads 'better' than one with a dozen pads? Yes. This could be seen to say that soloing is 'better' than bouldering. Or in other words climbing without a pad is 'better' than with one.

Tim Chapman

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Re: Dawes v Boulder Pads
« Reply #14 on: June 01, 2012, 12:20:58 PM »
Why is climbing not a sport?
its athletic. it can be competetive,( with others or just against yourself)
it takes training. it can be done in teams of 2.

I also agree with davo.

 

anything