Grades - because it's raining and people have broadband

[Dave Flanagan]

Are they done strict or are you allowed to cheat by flicking at the bottom ?

Not sure. Does flicking help that much? On a pull up bar though.

[Dave Ayton]

How about the grade of Robots? 7B still holding? 

[Dave Flanagan]

I have always percieved bouldering grades as being "flash grades" i.e. that is the grade of the problem the first time you walk up and sit in front of it, without tick marks, beta, etc etc. . . . For example, I spent many evenings last summer out to the Scalp working Dark Angle SS; everytime I didn't get it it seemed hard and probably worth its 7a (maybe 6c+?), it's technical, with a burly first move  . . . . . however, by the time I got it (and all the times since), it doesn't feel like a 7a (in my head), but I won't easily forget those evenings on my ass in front of it - I feel very similarly about Chillax, Gullys Problem, etc etc i.e. before I got them, they definitely felt thier grade but after they didn't anymore. . . . . . is this why certain climbs are being downgraded. . . . people are getting stronger, etc. . . . . personally I think DA SS at 6b+ does it a dis-service, but really I don't want to focus on one problem, just using it as an example.

This is just my opinion.

Bouldering grades are flash grades in the sense that the concept of an on-sight doesn't really exist in bouldering.  With the exception of burly problems that you need to battle all the way I think most problems feel easy when they finally click. It's hard to factor this into a grade. However bouldering grades should presume the best sequence and decent conditions.

I think that some stronger climbers find DA SS quite easy because the first move is very fingery and due to their strong fingers it just feels easy to them ie. if you have 7b finger strength it may well feel like a 6b+.  But to a climber with 6b+ finger strength it may well feel 7a. Subjective eh?

[Dave Ayton]

Good point on the DA ss - I couldn't do the stand a few weeks ago - came back and could do laps on it and the sitter. A combination of better beta and conditions made the difference. Very typical of Wicklow bouldering in my opinion. i.e. very, very, very subtle and technical.

I don't think that much thought needs to be put into "How" to grade these problems. Regardless of conditions and beta. Someone cleans and climbs a problem and suggests a grade. People go out and repeat the problem using different beta, breaking holds and in different conditions and offer their opinions. Over time a particular grade emerges as the more common one suggested and reflects the more normal sequence used by the more average build boulderer.

All thats needed for this to work is honest communication via a forum like this and for people to be straight with themselves regarding how hard they had to try and maybe be aware that they may be progressing in terms of strength and technique.

[Dave Ayton]

http://davemacleod.blogspot.com/2012/05/using-natural-method.html

Interesting post about a hard FA in scotland and mentions differences in grading systems. Apparently Scottish Font 8B is harder than Swizz Font 8C... who'd a thunk? 

[Dave Flanagan]

Not to re-open the can of worms but here is an interesting articles about grades in bouldering

http://www.up-climbing.com/en/interview/boulder/bouldering-grades

[Barry]

For those who are interested, I have started adding problems to 27crags.com, albeit slowly but just to get the ball rolling, I'll put in a few per day and with other input, it might grow.

http://27crags.com/countries/ireland

The site takes a bit of getting used to but it's a good resource so if you would like, please add boulders, areas, sectors, your ascents and associated opinions. It would allow for some kind of consensus on grades for old and new problems.

[ciaran]

Cool, good idea man, it will help a lot to get a better grade concensus ! Also is there a 7a+ start to Holly Tree Roof in the Scalp ? I heard a few murmurs about it

[simonmcg]

I have added some problems too, I added 3 rock for the bbq so everyone can get ticking that wants too
oh and if it stops raining

[Barry]

Good stuff, it's starting to get a nice few problems in it now.  Remember that you can log your ascents and give grade opinions too.  Also, the addition of vids/pics is nice.

[Dave Flanagan]

Of course you can use the names and grades but please don't quote the descriptions or area introductions from the guide.

[ciaran]

I'm trying to put up Doolin ... having trouble figuring out how to add problems, can anyone help ?

[Barry]

It can be a pain alright, login, go to the map, left click and a menu will appear that allows you to add a boulder.  Once added, go to topo, click on the relevant boulder, and add problem.

[simonmcg]

Sorry Dave.

[ciaran]

Cheers, have it going now and my campaign to get at least a plus grade added onto a large portion of Irish problems to bring them more into line with European grades has begun  !