Grades - because it's raining and people have broadband

[chris rooney]

need some way of recording who's opinions they are? also it should be noted only repeaters opinions should be recorded

[Stephen McMullan]

Just for the benefit of Dave Flanagan - polls can be turned on in the forum to allow voting so potentially you could have a thread per problem with a voting mechanism. Not very elegant perhaps but do-able for a selection of "test case" problems.

Its very easy to set up a wiki (Mediawiki) and allow collaborative editing if you want total free-form

I guess you have some sort of database behind your new problems submission page. This could be extended to include all known problems as per your guide and updates and then code up a voting mechanism based on that.

Personally I use Gill's B-grades if anyones interested, which you're not so I'll fuck off... 

[Edit: polls are already enabled - just do New Poll instead of New Thread if anyone wants to see how it works]

[Kevin_Griffin]

Would'nt be that hard in PHP, getting it looking pretty and all the functionality people would end asking for might be though....

[Stephen McMullan]

I can guarantee that it will drive Dave F to tears, been there done that with the old route database on climbing.ie, thats why I said fuck it, tore it down and put in the wiki and said do it yourselves. What bleau.info and ukclimbing have is amazing but believe me a LOT of toil, years of effort, went into it. I decided life was too short for that malarky. Zealot required.

[Kevin_Griffin]

Still might keep him off the streets though....

[Stephen McMullan]

Very true and its quite probable that I'm just a lazy hoor with a short [attention] span (geddit?) . Sure he produced a guidebook. He probably is a zealot who could complete a task!

[Dave Ayton]

I think Jizzle is onto the right track with an online spreadsheet to begin with - no effort bar getting the problem names and areas uploaded then let people add to it as they please. would it be possible to let people add but not delete previous additions (except the moderator or something?)

[Barry]

Probably should only include the full lines - i.e. soul revolution (high start)?

[Dave Ayton]

what/where is soul revolution?

[John Howard]

Sorry yeah good point baz, dave it's a newish one of Michaels, brilliant line, its up the hill and left of the Ballinafunshogue car park, beside a really tall pine, think its in the problem database

[Dave Ayton]

Cheers I'll check it out...

[Kevin_Griffin]

Would suit your reach Dave....

[Dave Flanagan]

Now that this thread has run out of steam I will say my piece.

Chris. Dark Angle SS was given 7a on the advice of some lad, Michael Duffy, do you know him? Patrick I think you are right about the stand start to DA, more than 6a maybe even 6b?

In relation to sandbagging grades, I find this a bit tiresome.

Dave Ayton thanks to your height I think you are going to find a lot of problems easier than most people. I would suggest Choc Ice as a prime example.

I don't think grading is democratic, looking at John's spreadshee I think the opinions on the grades are meaningless without knowing whose opinions they are ie. all opinions aren't equal. Also I think the rule that only those who have climbed a problem can have an opinion on it's grade is silly and arbituary.

Kevin. I won't be writing a php grade whore application any time soon. I think 27crags.com has grade voting functionality if someone wants to add problem there. Or UKclimbing?

[chris rooney]

>>all opinions aren't equal. Also I think the rule that only those who have climbed a problem can have an opinion on it's grade is silly and arbituary.

if someone doesnt need to climb a problem to grade it then how do you sort the wheat from the chaff?  the spreadhseet might not be ideal but its certainly more democratic than you deciding who's best qualified to take the best guess.

>>Chris. Dark Angle SS was given 7a on the advice of some lad, Michael Duffy, do you know him?

i do know if i wanted to confirm the grade of an 8A I'd ask Michael, but a 7A? i'd ask me 

maybe 27crags would be the best way forward for a bleau.info style consensus to develop.

[Dave Flanagan]

if someone doesnt need to climb a problem to grade it then how do you sort the wheat from the chaff?  the spreadhseet might not be ideal but its certainly more democratic than you deciding who's best qualified to take the best guess.

I don't think democratics (As in one man one vote, all votes are equal) comes into it.
To invent an extreme example. There is a problem somewhere. Some strong kid who has only every climbed in Gravity does it and offers a grade. You, fresh back from a trip to Font, work the moves but don't link it cause you get a flapper. Who is more likely to grade it accurately?

I think I'm the best person to form my own opinions.

There are loads of flaws with just taking the median or mean grade for a problem. But they are irrelevent as
- the whole idea of an accurate grading systems is an impossible dream/nightmare.
- there is no need for an accurate grading system.

Long discussions about what is benchmark 7a++ are pointless, how can you compare a steep roof on edges to a blank smearing slab. It's apples versus oranges.